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November 25th, 2010


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11:32 pm - Cross-Genre Interactions in oWoD White Wolf
...are remarkably messy. I just finished a first draft (barring a few bits about geographical concerns) of a document aimed at storytellers who want to introduce Changelings into their oWoD game. The working title, of course, was "Why You Shouldn't Use Changelings In Your Game, But What You Need To Know When You Ignore This Advice."
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From:jadasc
Date:November 26th, 2010 12:21 pm (UTC)
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You are, of course, going to make this article available for those of us not in your physical play group but with an interest in the topic?
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From:kniedzw
Date:November 26th, 2010 06:35 pm (UTC)
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I could do so, though it's aimed at LARPing oWoD (and MET) and is still being edited. I'll keep you in mind, however.
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From:akashiver
Date:November 26th, 2010 11:42 pm (UTC)
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I want to read eet!
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From:ninja_turbo
Date:November 26th, 2010 03:27 pm (UTC)
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I have a spoiler:

"Step One: If you must use Changelings in your game, apply your head to a steel beam.

Steps Two Through Fifteen: Repeat Step One.

Step Sixteen: If you still think using Changelings in your game is a good idea, begin by..."
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From:mindstalk
Date:November 26th, 2010 06:10 pm (UTC)
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What's the problem? Power, lack of it, mood?

I thought, well, that cross-splat in general is problematic, but that Mages were the particularly bad ones.
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From:ninja_turbo
Date:November 26th, 2010 08:54 pm (UTC)
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My biggest problem is violent tonal inconsistency. Changeling is tonally inconsistent by itself, and when it's combined with other genres, things can easily get awkward.
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From:gollumgollum
Date:November 26th, 2010 04:00 pm (UTC)
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Ahahahahahaha. You're my favorite. :D
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From:sapphohestia
Date:November 26th, 2010 04:04 pm (UTC)
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Ha. Very nice.
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From:golconda2
Date:November 27th, 2010 10:15 am (UTC)
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From:danimagus
Date:November 29th, 2010 06:52 am (UTC)
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I've seen the work you've done so far, Kyle, and, as you know, I love it and I think you're doing an amazing job of making sense of something nonsensical. As an ex-ST of a cross-over OWoD game that was primarily Changeling, I have to give you much applause. It's insane trying to figure out how Changelings, obscure Mokole Gifts, Theurge Gifts used by an Enchanted Garou, and so on work together.

I just purchased the (very cheap) new Masquerade <-> Requiem conversion document, which is in part historical and reflexive; in the introductory section, White Wolf looks back at the changes in overall paradigm. Obviously, the OWoD genres do not play together well, and White Wolf insists that in the OWoD those genres were not reaaaally meant to coexist from a rules or genre standpoint. (But aren't there Balor with BSD bodyguards? And Isle of the Mighty, which is mostly Mage with a few lackluster Changelings tossed in there?) In NWoD, everything was designed to be able to coexist and cross-over more neatly. They say that, in OWoD Vampire, they were intending for STs to make up their own "lupines," and not use the Werewolf: the Apocalypse version. I think that's sound advice for using "Changelings" in Vampire, personally. If you want the fae involved in your Vampire game, make up your own take, maybe using Vampire rules for sake of ease. It's far simpler than trying to maintain several distinct rule sets. (Bunks. Need I say more?)

Bottom line, I praise you mightily, Kyle, but I'd prefer to not have these genres interact as they do in OWbN. Make your lupines classic folklore/pop culture werewolves, using Vampire rules. Have your fae running about being properly fae, not cringing and passing out the moment someone whips out their credit card statement. ; )

~Fancy
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From:kniedzw
Date:November 29th, 2010 07:00 am (UTC)
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Yeah. It's sort of shoveling against the tide, frankly. ...but I definitely agree that your approach is the saner approach for most STs. The real problem I had, however, was STs who had no idea how to run Changeling thinking that they should drop them wholesale into their Vampire game without even beginning to think through the specifics.

Overall, I feel it was a useful document to put together, which is being reviewed presently by various other coords.
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From:danimagus
Date:November 29th, 2010 07:12 am (UTC)
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Oh dear. Well, I'm sure those STs started to see the error of that thinking pretty swiftly. Personally, I thematically love to combine fae with vampires, given they are so at-odds in many ways. (But I can think of dozens of ways Seelie and Unseelie alike would resonate very harmoniously with various Clans.) But for the sake of sanity, and out of respect for what White Wolf was trying to do with Changeling: the Dreaming, I'd prefer to just make fae more in line with my tastes and the particular story at work. Which works great for a troupe/tabletop game, but not for an org game like One World where a cross-genre, shared reality is fundamental. Though as a result paradoxes are everywhere -- not just in Mage.

I'm sure (well, optimistic) that the other Coords'll love it, and I'm eager to see what they suggest. I'm not sure who the current/future Changing Breeds-type Coords are, but I especially hope they give some good feedback!

I wonder, does OWbN have any Changeling games currently? Or do you know if there are games out there that have Changeling PCs? (I hope, hope, hope it's a vampire game, if so.)

~Fancy

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